Curse

XeNoGeArZ · Jul 14, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

we are definitely in 1932 ! The Great Guild Wars Depression! Note it

hydrak · Jul 14, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by enzymepopper

I also think the Traders adjust the prices periodically instead of instantly. Meaning they adjust the prices every half an hour or so instead of having the prices fluctuate whenever someone buys or sells. Because I have bought and sold hundreds of rare materials and only saw a single price change. And I saw the second price change about half an hour or so later.

So if there's only say 100 ectos in the market. I could keep on buying them for say 3k each. After I bought up all 99 ectos, the price of the last ecto will still remain 3k until the next round of price adjustment which could be half an hour away. This is how I make my money. I didn't have to work with the market because in a sense, I get flat rate from all my purchase/sells. Buying ALL the Parchment in stock for 400 G each. Wait for half a day, then sall ALL the Parchment back for 600G each. As long as I do it between each price adjustment, I won't have to worry about the price changing when I'm doing my trades.

No wonder ectos prices keep rising... You were robbing the rare material trader.

generik · Jul 14, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

My point is that with the new update NO EFFORT IS REQUIRED. Say WTS: Whatever item that has a trader and add 10% to the price the trader will pay for it. 1 post and less than a miniute of time increases the gold you pocket by 10%.

You must be kidding?

Black dye for 2.2 plat!
Steel for 33 gold each!

It doesn't reflect market reality at all!

And responding to another guy's suggestion on how that present system would encourage botters eh?

Well, if that's the cause maybe they should just terminate everyone's account with the explaination "Sorry! We didn't want to take the chance of having bots play out game!"

That update effectively taken out a dimension of the game.. something that I can do in a Role Playing game, a trader.

And let's just say that there is VERY LITTLE to do in GW at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Hate to burst your bubble, but most people do. Only a handful of people actually bothers participating in the market right now, for most selling to the trader, even for a low price, is way faster than trying to peddle it to another player. The time they save trying to sell their wares is time they can spend with friends having fun in missions and quests, and probably earning more on the side than the 35%-40% extra money they make.

The only people who benefit from 85%/90% sell price are those who mass-buy and mass-sell from the trader. They get enough profit for their time invested, especially since they don't need to bother with other players - their profits are purely limited to how fast they can click, and how much money they can invest in every investment pulse. It takes money to make money in this fashion, which is prime argument for it being a device that makes the rich richer and keeping the poor poor.

You're only arguing from your own perspective, and the game scope is larger than that.

Oh, I wasn't aware Guild Wars was a stock trade emulation. I had this funny idea about it being a cooperative roleplaying game that involved using well-organised teams to defeat scripted challenges or other teams.

Real-world economic historical precedence means nothing in an online game, you're grasping at straws to validate your point.

I hate to burst your bubble too, but I've played my final character from start to finish (including having "fun" playing the same missions for the 4th time), and I completely explored the crystal desert, and I didn't "run" anything..

And now that I've reached ring of fire I reckon I made a grand total of 14 plat in all.

On this last character I didn't spend any gold I had in storage on it.. so essentially it paid for its own upkeep.

Minus the cost of droknar armor (7.5 plat?) and thankfully I had a huge stash of materials so I didn't need to buy any from the trader, and yes, the nett total I have on it now is 6 plat.

People who are playing for the first time is going to STRUGGLE. Especially if they got taken in and paid to be ran to piken.. or ran to kryta.. or ran to aurora glaives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzler

So I liked to collect wood and tanned hides and turn them into parchment and leather and sell to the material trader (I don't like selling to players). I would just collect as I adventured and salvaged what I found.

It costs me 50gp + 5 tanned hides to make one leather. It costs me 1-2 expert salvages to get 5 tanned hides (400/25 * 1-2) = 16-32g. So my total cost for 1 leather would be 50 + 16-32, let's call it 74g on average. This does not include the cost of the item salvaged (anywhere from 5gp - 30gp). Let's call it 20gp. That pushes the average cost of leather production to 94gp.

I would go to the material trader and sell 10 leather for anywhere from 900 - 1500gp. Average, 1200gp. That would make me a profit of (120-94) 26gp per leather on average. And since I sold to the trader and not people, it also helped to lower the overall price of leather that people need to buy and don't have.

In short, I made a small profit for my efforts, and other people benefitted from lower prices. Win win for everyone.

Now I can't do that b/c the material trader is only offering 500gp for 10 leather. I will no longer sell and will no longer produce, but will just horde the raw materials or quit salvaging and sell the items to the merchant where they just vanish. Others will do the same, the material trader cost of leather will rise and the ppl that DO sell leather on the open market will start charging more for it.

Suckage.

Exactly, and this is a ROLE PLAYING GAME. Essentially players are supposed to play through PvE, unlock all the skills, and play PvP, and that's it? So it is "wrong" to do something like what Dazzler does?

In the meantime people still offer beacons to droknar running services, and yes, they make way more than us traders.

Anet seems to have a narrow perspective of what role players can do... jeez, what the heck is this? I envision they should just call the next area in Chapter 2... Singapore!

quanzong · Jul 14, 2005, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Sigils are raising, I remember when I paid them for 39.99K, now they goto 43.06 to 66+

b1m2x3 · Jul 14, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28

i have around 80 blue dye i've been sitting on for a while... they used to sell for ~300 to the trader.

now i can only get like 85 for them. this is horrible.

meh... i guess it doesnt really matter as i have done everything i want in the game including the HOH. maybe it is time to stop playing....

Zaklex · Jul 14, 2005, 11:34 PM // 23:34

This is a Competitive On-line RPG, it wasn't designed to Role Play a crafter, trader or any other job ala the other on-line games, here you ar RP'ing a hero, combatant. Keep in mind that all prices are set by SUPPLY and DEMAND, there is no Auto-stocking of the traders, if players don't sell to them they will run out of material to sell to the players, likewise if no one buys from them their prices will drop as inventory increases.

generik · Jul 14, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaklex

This is a Competitive On-line RPG, it wasn't designed to Role Play a crafter, trader or any other job ala the other on-line games, here you ar RP'ing a hero, combatant. Keep in mind that all prices are set by SUPPLY and DEMAND, there is no Auto-stocking of the traders, if players don't sell to them they will run out of material to sell to the players, likewise if no one buys from them their prices will drop as inventory increases.

Yes yes yes..

Competitive On Line RPG.

Let's just put it simply, the latest patch has removed yet more value from the game. I do not give a damned for competitive play, and I'm sure many others here too, and perhaps you did meant Cooperative play.

Please refer to that FoW griefer's thread somewhere else on this forum.. sad to say, people like that come quite frequently too.

Essentially GW is to me "The occasional good party and generally henchmen game". And now with less and less possibilities left to do in the game.. screw it, I guess it's just overrated HYPE.

aB- · Jul 15, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

I have a couple points to make.

First of all, quit with the "just play through the game" suggestion. It doesn't work. The first time I played through the game, my first rare drop was in the D'Alessio Seaboard mission. Is that normal for everyone else? I have also NEVER found a black dye after what is most likely 200+ hours of play. Without the aid of farming, I probably receive a rare drop every 1-2 weeks of play, which is 21-42 hours of play. So at least for me, just playing through the game to obtain items and gold does not work.

Stop making Diablo comparisons when it is obvious that you've never played it. In Diablo you need to spend an ABSURD amount of time doing MF (magic find) runs. I remember doing over 200 MF runs running 3 bosses (anderial/mephisto/pindleskin for those who know) and only making an ist rune of profit which is not much at all. You can't just own all the monsters easily. In fact, without the aid of Ebay or any source like that, it took countless hours to make a character to withstand the hell difficulty setting. And making a sorceress and tele'ing to the bosses to kill them doesn't count as playing through the difficulty.

PieXags · Jul 15, 2005, 12:23 AM // 00:23

I honestly don't give a damn about what you people call this game, saying it was meant for "competitive" people and PvP.

I've never been much into farming, I want it back so badly right now because there's NOTHING ELSE TO DO. You can say this game is "PvP focused" all you want, if that be the case you mind explaining to my why the hell PvP in this game is so tiny and boring? PvP in this game is simply...not very fun, for me and well, many others. Problably those many many people who've gone and signed my "quit nerfing the hell out of us" petition in the sanitarium.

I've done what this game has to offer. I've PvE'd my heart out, and I've PvPed until I got...horribly bored with it. PvP in this game never changes, it's just the same small little arenas with the same groups of 8 all using the SAME "tactics" (builds) over and over again. "Oh look, another smiting group, well our build can't stop that so we're screwed this round." Next round "Oh well we managed to beat them, beat the spirit spamming team and those other guys, now we're at the HoH...wow this is...kinda...cool, I guess...seeing this same thing for the hundredth time. Oh look, I fought against those guys last time I was here...Oh damn, we lost. Guess I have to go do all that all over again just to get to the "HoH" and see some nifty text say I've got more fame now! Yippee!"

Yeah, I don't think so buddy. That gets old real quick, not to mention half the time you go there you've got someone on some team insulting all the other teams with immature rascist comments on your way up, someone on your team will go "afk" or leave the game for no reason, etc. I don't want to care about one person going afk, I want to FIGHT in PvP...not just dick around with some little "flag" in hopes of getting an oh-so-important morale boost. When are we going to have some real PvP that's not some tiny "arena"...? Then maybe I'd consider THAT half of the game more.

So since I...and many others as you'll see from multiple threads in the sanitarium, view this current system of PvP to be kinda...too small scale and boring, we do what we can with the rest of the game. And...that's not much. So we're trying to help and IMPROVE the game by voicing our opinions here.

The petition is increasing in size as the day goes by, that to me tells me people are pretty pissed and that they've done something wrong with their updates. See, it's not even so much that "Oh we want THIS! Everyone else gets it." It's the fact that they HAD it in the game and it's been taken out thus decreasing the games overall value as a whole.

Watersong · Jul 15, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

My barbarian and amazon were for the win.
Leech rings, man, leech rings.
To stay is to stay kickin'.
Runs were pretty easy. My zon and barb were able to do the cow level alone on hell difficulty.

To stay on topic:

GW does have really limited PVP... And PVE... I wouldn't mind some larger map that's a little more complicated for PVP. Maybe more people per team...

Anyways, choices are getting limited, boring, and an expansion would only delay that for a short time.

EmperorTippy · Jul 15, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watersong

My barbarian and amazon were for the win.
Leech rings, man, leech rings.
To stay is to stay kickin'.
Runs were pretty easy. My zon and barb were able to do the cow level alone on hell difficulty.

To stay on topic:

GW does have really limited PVP... And PVE... I wouldn't mind some larger map that's a little more complicated for PVP. Maybe more people per team...

Anyways, choices are getting limited, boring, and an expansion would only delay that for a short time.

Pretty Off Topic.

Dyeeo was right.

Now that I am awake again I will start responding.

generik · Jul 15, 2005, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

It's the fact that they HAD it in the game and it's been taken out thus decreasing the games overall value as a whole.

I wholeheartedly agree with this last statement.

In fact, heck, if the NPCs were better implemented, they would not be creating gold out of nothing at all!

Currently all that is left to do are those UW/FoW runs/questing.. I pretty much captured all the elites there are to be capped for my primary and secondary professions, and have no need for skill points anymore, and those runs are just not worth it at all.

I even wonder how the drop system is implemented, because for each FoW run I notice that if I were to get a shard at all, I will get it only AFTER pretty much every one else gotten one, and that's usually at the Forgemaster's quest.

Nevermind the times when some party member decided to go afk, or the party got wiped (very often) etc.

It is slowly getting from fun to sickening, and there is no reward to justify it either.

I'll just shelf this game for a while I guess, and see how the 2 new "free" areas look like, and how the trader issues would be resolved eventually.

Don't get me wrong, I really loved this game, and I'm frustrated by how it has changed from a really nice RP game to a farked game, and as it stands now... it is best that Anet not count my $50 going into the next chapter, and I'm sure I speak for a sizable proportion of players too.

The devs might have something against the sins of Diablo or something.. heck, afterall some of themwere ex Blizzard employees, but whatever their motivations/reasons in leaving... just a point for you to ponder over, at least Diablo had more replayability.

They had less graphics, less immersion, less of everything, yet that game provided more.

GW had a lot more from the go get, it certainly can provide a lot more than Diablo.

There's something for you guys to ponder over.

jelly samwich · Jul 15, 2005, 01:54 AM // 01:54

wth happened??

i dont think i should unload my ecto at 952g a pop..

Halfling hopperston · Jul 15, 2005, 02:23 AM // 02:23

after reading this thread all i can see is people complaining cause Anet nerfed there way f becoming insanely rich.... and all i can say to you is get a life! who whants to spend hours and hours farming a chest just so they can make cash they cant spend!

however on the flip side i beleave they could have nerfed it more effectivly by making monster drops better so it was more profitable to simply go through missions so people had no desire to farm to get that 1mil gold....

as for the market crash, you keep forgetting that the prices may have been lowered but that makes it more effecitive for lower level players and the people just starting to get there amour and weapons so they can finish the game with out having to spend the 15 hrs farming to get the 50k you whant for 1 crafting material. i feel the balance is getting better in the game but still needs improving. hell have you tryed to get a sigil laty from just dong missions and enjoying the game? i have and i tell you know its not easy....

EmperorTippy · Jul 15, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfling hopperston

after reading this thread all i can see is people complaining cause Anet nerfed there way f becoming insanely rich.... and all i can say to you is get a life! who whants to spend hours and hours farming a chest just so they can make cash they cant spend!

however on the flip side i beleave they could have nerfed it more effectivly by making monster drops better so it was more profitable to simply go through missions so people had no desire to farm to get that 1mil gold....

as for the market crash, you keep forgetting that the prices may have been lowered but that makes it more effecitive for lower level players and the people just starting to get there amour and weapons so they can finish the game with out having to spend the 15 hrs farming to get the 50k you whant for 1 crafting material. i feel the balance is getting better in the game but still needs improving. hell have you tryed to get a sigil laty from just dong missions and enjoying the game? i have and i tell you know its not easy....

NO!! The price for you to buy the item from the trader has INCREASED or stayed the same.

The decrease is when you sell TO THE TRADER. He buys for less than 60% list price. This causes less people to sell to him. Less people selling to him causes a price rise. Combined with the nerfs that provided most players with their gold this makes it HARDER TO BUY ANYTHING even the droknars armor.

Halfling hopperston · Jul 15, 2005, 02:33 AM // 02:33

yea but that means PLAYERS sell lower cause they cant get as good a price. thus allowing people to get what they need from other players they reliying on the trader

EmperorTippy · Jul 15, 2005, 02:42 AM // 02:42

The players sell price is based on the traders SELL price (not the price he will pay you to buy the item). Essentialy if the trader is selling for 10K the going rate is 8-9K and if you want a quick sale you sell for 6-7K but this whole time the trader is offering 4-5K to buy the item.Most no one sells to the trader and a few people still buy from him if they have the gold and don't want to wait at all.

What you say would be true except that many many players are already wealthy enough that they don't really care and will buy the 10K item for 8K, but the new character who has no money can't buy that item and won't ever be able to because of the farming nerfs.

Alderman Sweet · Jul 15, 2005, 02:58 AM // 02:58

I don't understand why devs and publishers create these problems for themselves. When you let players influence a living, mutable economy, prices will go nuts. When you introduce more mutability with traders and the like, prices will do what they're doing now. All fluid and chaotic elements should be stripped out of the game. A central trading "house" should be introduced, where all prices are fixed for items, materials, and services. Players' personal trade windows should be taken out. All trading should go through the house. This wouldn't be as exciting as the present looney situation, but it would stabilize the economy. "Stablize" is too gentle a word. It would kill the economy. But sometimes that's what you have to do with mad dogs.

MachineKing · Jul 15, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Things are not that bad. Way back beforethe rune trader Sup absorb were around 75 plat each and sup. vigors were 100 plat a piece. Compared to those days those are cheap as heck.

aB- · Jul 15, 2005, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfling hopperston

after reading this thread all i can see is people complaining cause Anet nerfed there way f becoming insanely rich.... and all i can say to you is get a life! who whants to spend hours and hours farming a chest just so they can make cash they cant spend!

however on the flip side i beleave they could have nerfed it more effectivly by making monster drops better so it was more profitable to simply go through missions so people had no desire to farm to get that 1mil gold....

as for the market crash, you keep forgetting that the prices may have been lowered but that makes it more effecitive for lower level players and the people just starting to get there amour and weapons so they can finish the game with out having to spend the 15 hrs farming to get the 50k you whant for 1 crafting material. i feel the balance is getting better in the game but still needs improving. hell have you tryed to get a sigil laty from just dong missions and enjoying the game? i have and i tell you know its not easy....

It's quite easy to tell you skipped everything in the post and went to quick response and typed your statement in. If anything, the new update is making it HARDER for new players, as buying prices from merchants is high, while the selling price is drastically low.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MachineKing

Things are not that bad. Way back beforethe rune trader Sup absorb were around 75 plat each and sup. vigors were 100 plat a piece. Compared to those days those are cheap as heck.

This is not what we are complaining about. We are not complaining about the price of each item, but the difference between buying and selling price at the traders.